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Thread: 2015 Trades/Free Agency/Donuts

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    Super Moderator dylan123's Avatar
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    2015 Trades/Free Agency/Donuts

    With the home and away season things will start to pick up on this front.


    Trade list:

    Lachie Henderson
    Jake Carlisle
    Charlie Dixon
    Harley Bennell


    Higher profile Delisted FA:
    Jed Adcock
    Steve Johnson
    James Kelly
    Mathew Stokes
    Last edited by dylan123; 15th September 2015 at 03:45 PM.

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    Moderator Athomas's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Has Kreuzer really done less than Frawley? I guess it's irrelevant, as age and $$$ are the factors that determine the pick. How can Carlton not get Pick 2 if he's on $450K+ which he should be as a much needed position, that's mobile. I love Kreuz (and not fussed if he stays and we miss out on Pick 2) and he's in the top 10 ruckman in the AFL when fit I would have thought. Someone will pay $500K+ which will trigger the #2 pick.

    I wasn't happy Dees got Pick 3 for Frawley, I rate Kreuzer higher but it's still a joke that it's tied to ladder position. I believe they are going to get rid of Free Agency compensation soon?
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    I don't think Kreuzer will get pick 2 simply because the AFL need to get Schache (a pseudo-F/S who won't have any go-home factor) to Brisbane so that the two QLD teams stop being a disgrace. My guess is either an end of first round compo, which Carlton will be ok with given the likelihood of getting pick 9 for Henderson and pick 15-odd for Yarran.
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    At the end of the day it depends on how many clubs want him and what they're willing to pay him.

    The system is broken and it is a joke that compensation is tied to ladder position, it makes absolutely no sense at all.
    hoff.

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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    There's been some talk of Jeremy Howe getting traded. Howe is out of contract but he is not a FA. Gold Coast is being thrown around as a destination for him. I suspect we are hearing about this only because Howe's people and Melbourne have opposing ideas at this point about what Howe's next contract should be worth.
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeta View Post
    At the end of the day it depends on how many clubs want him and what they're willing to pay him.

    The system is broken and it is a joke that compensation is tied to ladder position, it makes absolutely no sense at all.
    No, it depends on which strings the AFL wants to pull.

    The other option (which I should have posted before rather than stopping mid-sentence...) is that they'll introduce a mid-first-round bracket into the compo because why not, rules on the run.
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Pick 2 is overs for Kruze. On the trade market he is a pick 10-20 player at best.

    It will be the same if Leuey gets pick 3/4 as compo.

    The compo isn't meant to be fair. But what we are seeing is that the bottom teams are getting overs for role players and everyone else is getting unders for stars. They need to change something
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    Super Moderator dylan123's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Athomas View Post
    Has Kreuzer really done less than Frawley? I guess it's irrelevant, as age and $$$ are the factors that determine the pick. How can Carlton not get Pick 2 if he's on $450K+ which he should be as a much needed position, that's mobile. I love Kreuz (and not fussed if he stays and we miss out on Pick 2) and he's in the top 10 ruckman in the AFL when fit I would have thought. Someone will pay $500K+ which will trigger the #2 pick.

    I wasn't happy Dees got Pick 3 for Frawley, I rate Kreuzer higher but it's still a joke that it's tied to ladder position. I believe they are going to get rid of Free Agency compensation soon?
    Reason I'd have Frawley ahead is he at least had an AA selection to his name and runner up in the clubs B&F which is more than what Kreuzer has managed (from an individual standpoint).

    It seems 450k+ seems about what's required to get band 1 from what I heard on the radio/read online which I personally think is far too low. Think the figure should be at least 600k+ to be worthy of cat1 compo myself. That said, if I was a Carlton supporter I'd be saying if Melbourne got the band 1 compo for Frawley then why shouldn't we?

    As a neutral it just seems crap, especially as a mid tier team who could lose Dangerfield for pick 13-15 odd by the time Carlton/Brisbane get potential compo picks.

    Like I understand giving more back to the weaker clubs v the stronger clubs not getting full value but #2 is massive overs for a guy who hasn't really lived up to his potential as a former #1 pick. In the open market I'd be surprised if a club would give a pick inside the top 10 for him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Devo View Post
    There's been some talk of Jeremy Howe getting traded. Howe is out of contract but he is not a FA. Gold Coast is being thrown around as a destination for him. I suspect we are hearing about this only because Howe's people and Melbourne have opposing ideas at this point about what Howe's next contract should be worth.
    Whilst he's an excitement machine, would he really be a big loss if he went/another club was willing to give him a 500-600k contract?

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    Super Moderator dylan123's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Random thought with the compo, would be nice if there was another category where picks are given after the teams that missed the finals have drafted (so say pick 11 for Carlton if they lost Kreuzer). You then save the band one for the top tier players of the clubs - so if they lost say Gibbs for example I'd have no problem with them getting a pick straight after their first.

    Still unsure how you'd make it fair for those teams that lose a star that are in the top 8 but feels like the above would be a bit of a balance to prevent guys like Frawley/Kreuzer getting their old clubs a second elite pick in the draft.


    I guess the other argument would be to just get rid of the compo but I think you'd need to open the free agency up some more so your average clubs can attract some younger talent at the higher up clubs that are unable to break into the 22. As it stands, for the most part, free agents only want to go to strong clubs (unless a bottom end club is willing to pay overs by a lot).

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    FFC General Manager Devo's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Athomas View Post
    Has Kreuzer really done less than Frawley? I guess it's irrelevant, as age and $$$ are the factors that determine the pick. How can Carlton not get Pick 2 if he's on $450K+ which he should be as a much needed position, that's mobile. I love Kreuz (and not fussed if he stays and we miss out on Pick 2) and he's in the top 10 ruckman in the AFL when fit I would have thought. Someone will pay $500K+ which will trigger the #2 pick.

    I wasn't happy Dees got Pick 3 for Frawley, I rate Kreuzer higher but it's still a joke that it's tied to ladder position. I believe they are going to get rid of Free Agency compensation soon?
    Have to agree that assessing the level of compensation on the basis of salary makes such little sense. Salary is based on what a player's agent was able to negotiate for the player, rather than a player's talent. To tie the pick to ladder position just compounds the injustice. You could come up with a more sophisticated compensation system to better reflect the quality of the player being lost, but the better and fairer option would be to do away with FA compensation altogether immediately and never speak of it again.

    On Kreuzer v Frawley, it depends how you want to measure it because they play very different positions, but some measures could be (and this isn't an exclusive list):
    - AA selections: 1 for Frawley (2010), 0 for Kreuzer
    - Top 3 B&F placings: 2 for Frawley (2010, 2011), 0 for Kreuzer
    - Brownlow votes: 5 for Frawley, 15 for Kreuzer

    While he hasn't shown it for a couple of years, Frawley has shown that he is capable of being among the elite in his position as a full-back. An AA selection and 2x top 3 B&F placings are a testament to that. Kreuzer has more Brownlow votes behind him but he hasn't achieved any AA selections or B&F placings at this point in his career, whether it be due to injuries or a simple case of ruckmen taking longer to develop. I'd say that Kreuzer is above-average in his position when fit, but we can't go further than that. We could do an exercise like was done for Cale Hooker around here a while ago, but I think that would be unwise.
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    FFC General Manager Devo's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by dylan123 View Post
    Whilst he's an excitement machine, would he really be a big loss if he went/another club was willing to give him a 500-600k contract?
    My thoughts exactly.
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    Moderator Wogitalia's Avatar
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    Pick 2 is overs for Kruze. On the trade market he is a pick 10-20 player at best.

    It will be the same if Leuey gets pick 3/4 as compo.

    The compo isn't meant to be fair. But what we are seeing is that the bottom teams are getting overs for role players and everyone else is getting unders for stars. They need to change something
    They have no reason to fix it though, the AFL is loving how their specifically designed FA/Trade system is working.

    The destination clubs that the AFL wants to doing well (Hawthorn and Collingwood mostly) get to sign a couple of stars a year for nothing, they give the small fish an over the top draft pick so they can keep selling snake oil, I mean hope, to their fans and the cycle continues.

    The AFL is quite possibly more broken than the Australian political system at this point as far as doing what it should be doing as opposed to doing what serves it's specific interest groups the best.

    Kreuzer absolutely isn't worth pick 2 but that's the broken system that we operate in. He'd be just about a top 10 ruckmen which is a position where two of the guys unquestionably better than him have garnered picks 35 and 17 & 37 over the last two seasons. I don't blame Carlton for exploiting it, they should and they need to, giving up a guy who is a borderline top 10 ruckman for pick 2 is one of the easier decisions you can make as a list manager.

    Adam Treloar is the big piece, I wonder if GWS dig in on it at all given how good he is, he's the kind of guy you dig in and require at least two firsts for, imo, Carlton and whether he is willing to go there are obviously the x-factor in the whole thing as preseason draft could be a real threat in that scenario.

    Going to be a very interesting offseason though.
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Treloar's trade price is what Collingwood got for Beams at a minimum.

    The fact that there appears to be at least 3 clubs vying for his services in Victoria means that GWS should do well for him.
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by dylan123 View Post
    With the home and away season things will start to pick up on this front.



    - Dixon has already announced he wants out and wishes to go to Port. Be interesting to see what Port give up to make that happen and they'll obviously have some players move out of the club to fit in his contract.

    - Treloar is expected to make up his mind in the next couple of weeks.

    - Kreuzer doesn't look likely to return to Carlton. Will be a big joke if Carlton get #2 for a guy who has done even less then Frawley on the field and might only need to get ~500k to get that done.
    On top of these.

    - Redden has requested to be traded, WCE rumoured to be a suitor.

    - Scott Selwood looks out the door for Geelong

    - Lachie Henderson has requested a trade.

    - Harley Bennell is looking like being up for trade.

    - Yarran could also be out of the door at Carlton.

    - Dangerfield looks likely to leave Adelaide for Victoria

    - SJ on the market for a final year most likely.

    - Aish also looks like leaving Brisbane.
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    Re: 2015 Trades/Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Devo View Post
    My thoughts exactly.
    Howe isn't a FA so whether you let him go is basically whether the deal received is worth it. Howe is one of those guys I'd ask for a 1st for and if someone pays it I'm happy to let him work. Simple fact is that he is a very good mid sized forward and defender and I think in a good side that would just stand out further. Howe as a player isn't far off of a Breust or Birchall type as a forward or defender, that's a damn good player imo and he's one of the few Melbourne players where as a coach I'd feel very confident in him winning his matchup at either end (Bob Murphy is probably a better pure comparison in ability to play both ends). If I can get a pick in the 10-15 for him, I think I let him go though, but I don't think Melbourne are that far away now and I think they need to start thinking about holding onto the guys who are best 22 at any club even if they have to pay a bit extra on the first few.

    Doesn't hurt he is a guy that is genuinely worth going to watch. Puts bums in the seats probably better than anyone!
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