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Thread: Umpiring Interpretation Changes

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    Moderator Wogitalia's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkee View Post
    It actually has nothing to do with ducking. It is when the ball is in dispute and there are players around the ball and a player dive sin head first to retrieve, or dives in to retrieve, gets the ball and leads with the head to get out of congestion. It's not about ducking at all.
    No it is, they used one from Lindsay Thomas to illustrate it, they will actually be starting to apply the already existing rule that if you duck that is your prior opportunity, the leading with the head (driving as they call it) is the added interpretation which wasn't part of the original (and completely unused) rule.

    So now they are going to use the rule brought in last year where if you duck and are tackled legally or with reasonable force then you wont get high contact frees (The Melksham one on Thomas was a particularly bad example as it was right on the edge of the "reasonable force" part of that interpretation). Essentially though ducking going forward will be deemed prior. Driving has been added to that so if you gather the ball and then move forward with your head down that will also be deemed as prior opportunity.

    So yeah, the new "rule" doesn't actually address ducking but as part of the new rule they will apparently be enforcing the previous rule change as well, Campbell admitted that it came in last year and has been all but ignored by the umpires (good work guys!).

    From what I understood, shrugging (Shuey and Selwood moves essentially) was not specifically addressed and is still a massive grey area that will cause issues (again, good work guys!).

    The big part was that both Clarkson and Longmire were specifically named (with other coach support implied) that they actually want the rules to go a full step further and make the leading with the head example to be a free kick against and remove any element of doubt. I'll be honest, I like that idea, right now we reward players for being bravely stupid when there is no need. There is a reason the NFL bans that same action as both a tackler and ball carrier and that is because it is exceedingly dangerous to both parties (Riewoldt's terrible leading with his head tackle form on Smith a perfect example) and the NFL has helmets, pads and for a lot of players neck braces. I agree that it's an action that isn't needed and the only reason it exists is because the AFL has offered an incentive to do it with free kicks. I tend to think that all they've created now is an extra grey area, essentially we've got the sliding rule with holding the ball thrown in as an added bonus, you're still asking umpires to make a judgement of whether the player leads with their head, whether the guy coming the other way didn't contribute to the collision and then they have to remember it's holding the ball, a rule that has given them immense trouble the past few years.

    It just feels like typical AFL to me, the media don't like something so they rush to fix it and don't think about what might actually happen as a result, you're still rewarding guys who are running towards a moving player (which is the most dangerous of these kinds of contact) so it still has an incentive. Holding the ball was such a rotten crapshoot anyway that making it more likely doesn't really change player behaviour, it sure does make umpiring it harder though.
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    FFC Senior Assistant Coach Robbo's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Wogitalia View Post
    From what I understood, shrugging (Shuey and Selwood moves essentially) was not specifically addressed and is still a massive grey area that will cause issues (again, good work guys!).
    Haven't they already gone over this one?

    I'm sure i remember them stating that they see no issue with it and if the player being tackled is strong enough/has enough guile to 'slide' the tacklers arms into an illegal tackling position then they will be awarded a free kick. With the new rule if they are 'driving'/leaning their head forward too much then they should get pinged for htb, but the 'shrug' tactic to slip the tackle high is and always will be (imo) legal and essentially an extra skill for someone to develop and one that tacklers should take into account.

    EDIT: and this is coming from someone who's rage is at an all time high towards selwood who has been killing my teams lol
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    Moderator Wogitalia's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo View Post
    Haven't they already gone over this one?

    I'm sure i remember them stating that they see no issue with it and if the player being tackled is strong enough/has enough guile to 'slide' the tacklers arms into an illegal tackling position then they will be awarded a free kick. With the new rule if they are 'driving'/leaning their head forward too much then they should get pinged for htb, but the 'shrug' tactic to slip the tackle high is and always will be (imo) legal and essentially an extra skill for someone to develop and one that tacklers should take into account.

    EDIT: and this is coming from someone who's rage is at an all time high towards selwood who has been killing my teams lol
    Yeah that was my understanding... my comment was more a grey area for fans/players/media numptys to cause confusion than the actual rule so you will still have the peanuts yelling he ducked or what not even though it will remain a valid football move. The solution on that one is pretty damn simple... learn to tackle properly, if you're so weak or someone is so strong then so be it but that tactic wont work on a well executed tackle where a massive strength discrepancy (of the kind that shouldn't exist in a professional sporting environment) doesn't exist.

    Either way, as much as I like the intention here... I just don't see any way it works out the way they intend and makes things collectively better.
    Last edited by Wogitalia; 2nd June 2015 at 06:33 PM.
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    FFC Football Operations Manager Nothing's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    I was listening to the WC/NM game on a long drive and I'm sure that they applied one of these against Lindsay Thomas. The commentators had no idea what was going on (I didn't either as I'm only just reading about it for the first time).

    By the end of his playing career Lindsay is going to need his on Appendix to the Rules of The Game, to clarify all the Lindsay Thomas Rules that have been introduced in his honour.

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    FFC Bag Carrier Wheedus's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing View Post
    I was listening to the WC/NM game on a long drive and I'm sure that they applied one of these against Lindsay Thomas. The commentators had no idea what was going on (I didn't either as I'm only just reading about it for the first time).

    By the end of his playing career Lindsay is going to need his on Appendix to the Rules of The Game, to clarify all the Lindsay Thomas Rules that have been introduced in his honour.
    There was one instance where Lindsay did the usual throw his head back as soon as he felt contact (same thing Goodes has been doing in recent years). Ump was all over it and then pinged him for HTB. Nothing to do with ducking. Just great common sense from the umps. I suspect a by product of the new interpretation re ducking is the umps will also be a little more inclined to pay the HTB where a player stages for a free in a tackle.
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheedus View Post
    There was one instance where Lindsay did the usual throw his head back as soon as he felt contact (same thing Goodes has been doing in recent years). Ump was all over it and then pinged him for HTB. Nothing to do with ducking. Just great common sense from the umps. I suspect a by product of the new interpretation re ducking is the umps will also be a little more inclined to pay the HTB where a player stages for a free in a tackle.
    Yeh, that's what i got out of the decision. Thought it was great.
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    Super Moderator divvydan's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    Update for 2016 http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-12-1...gerous-tackles

    Changes:
    - Stricter adjudication of dangerous tackles, both high tackles that cause forceful high contact and lifting/slinging/rotating tackles.
    - Wider protected area around the mark (trial of distance in 2016 NAB Challenge)
    - Monitor handover of who is guarding the mark (I assume this is in relation to someone coming in from the side to take over the mark)
    - Stricter deliberate out of bounds (AFL will also monitor SANFL rule changes in this area next year)
    - AFL will also have stronger grounds to appear MRP and tribunal decisions.
    - Contact with an injured player will be a fixed financial penalty

    No change made to the third man up aspect of ruck contests.

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    FFC CEO Narkee's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    "Stricter deliberate out of bounds"

    As opposed to what? The lenience they gave this last year :facepalm:
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    Moderator Wogitalia's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkee View Post
    "Stricter deliberate out of bounds"

    As opposed to what? The lenience they gave this last year :facepalm:
    I assume they're going to try and shut down a lot more of the deliberates that are not caught under current interpretation. I'd think we will get a video showing if you kick it 30m to no one and the boundary that it will be deliberate, I have no problem with this, it's one change I'd support as it would force players to take the game on and take some risks instead of stopages..
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    The contact to an injured player rule is interesting. What if the player is injured but stays out on the ground? That should still be fair game imo.
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    Moderator Wogitalia's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    The contact to an injured player rule is interesting. What if the player is injured but stays out on the ground? That should still be fair game imo.
    Surely they'll have specifics in the actual law, otherwise assisting someone who is concussed would cop a fine for example or those who went over to touch Judd last year on his way off.

    I'd imagine it only applies to guys trying to leave the playing field for starters.

    I might be showing way to much faith in the AFL to use common sense though...
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    FFC General Manager Devo's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    For a ******* change, those changes seem sensible to me but I'd like to know more about the stricter deliberate OOB interpretation they have in mind.
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    The contact to an injured player rule is interesting. What if the player is injured but stays out on the ground? That should still be fair game imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wogitalia View Post
    Surely they'll have specifics in the actual law, otherwise assisting someone who is concussed would cop a fine for example or those who went over to touch Judd last year on his way off.

    I'd imagine it only applies to guys trying to leave the playing field for starters.

    I might be showing way to much faith in the AFL to use common sense though...
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    FFC Agent of Chaos Big Sledge #32's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

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    Super Moderator divvydan's Avatar
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    Re: Umpiring Interpretation Changes 2015

    http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-03-0...cks-down-rules


    THE PROTECTED area around the mark will be set at 10 metres this season after being successful trialled during the first three weeks of the NAB Challenge.


    AFL football operations manager Mark Evans confirmed the change had received broad support from clubs during consultations in the past two weeks and would be in place for the final week of the NAB Challenge.


    "It is the general view that the ability of teams to move the ball has improved with the larger protected area," Evans said.


    "The focus of the umpiring department will continue to be to ensure it is adjudicated consistently."


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