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Thread: 2014 AFL Trade Thread

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    Moderator Wogitalia's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    I think there is certainly a problem with it, personally I'd love to see them fix it by "building" rather than "destroying". That is, that every club should have an academy with the same rights as the QLD/NSW sides currently do, we should be trying to build the game in every state just as much and destroying the current academies would be a big step backwards for the game.

    Wouldn't be terribly hard either. NM could take Hobart, Hawks Launceston, Melbourne could take Darwin, etc with current alignments. West Coast could take the Kimberley and Freo take the South West, something like this. Force the clubs to help grow the game and give everyone access to this.

    I don't know the rules right now but the existing academies should be limited to one player a year as well with perhaps a first access to rookie list outside that or something.

    Agree that right now it's creating an unjust system, the old NSW scholarship system where every club had access was much fairer. Even if they don't want to have each club have an academy, perhaps allow each team to nominate a player and contribute to their development in the existing academies might help to equalise it.

    Still think the best approach is the one that I've mostly heard Eddie fight for, he wants every club to have an academy and I think that is by far the best idea, get the clubs into the under developed areas of football and have them help build the AFL brand and the reward for doing that will be a minor discount on the players.

    The big problem right now is that Sydney benefit under the bidding rules because we are going well, a rich gets richer scenario, the father son (and academy, same bidding system) is inherently flawed in that a better team will always win out because their first picks are lower, though a really bad team can also get a top 5 pick for a 2nd rounder if their pick is high enough to be inside anyone else's bid.

    Agree it needs fixing, the points system could be a go for that, I think father son should stay as is, if you get a discount then so be it, that's part of the charm for me (father son is inherently a luck based system so trying to equalise it is just pointless), happy for the academy picks to be points, though assigning points is very difficult and a bit subjective but I can't think of any better idea right now.
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Like the idea of decoupling clubs from the academies and opening the graduates up to selection by any club in a draft. Also don't mind every club having a youth academy based on a geographical zone. They seem to be the fairest ways to go. I recognise that it could become a part of the footy department arms race though.
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    I think the academy itself has to stay. I just think that they need to remove AFL club's participation in it.

    This isn't so much a Sydney thing (even if they are the barometer for public interest here) it is the ridiculous advantage it can provide 4 teams in the comp.

    If Adelaide or Port got first dibs on the best SA talent they could have had all of Trengove, Hurn, Gibbs, Griffen & Cooney running around for SA based clubs and would be absolute powerhouses.

    Same for the Perth clubs if they got first dibs on the WA talent.

    The market needs to develop, but the AFL should take on that burden and remove the inherent inequality there.
    Need to look at it through the right lens:

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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    Need to look at it through the right lens:

    Louise Milligan ‏@Milliganreports 2h
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    I don't really like the idea of decoupling the clubs and academies as much as I'd like to see every club have one and probably an adjustment to the bidding process. I think the coupling is a big part of the system and it should be used to grow the game in otherwise underdeveloped regions.

    Ultimately I'd love a system where the bidding process remains as is and every club has their own academy where they can nominate one player per year to go straight to their list via the same bidding system as in place (ie. Father son system).

    No doubt it's not fair right now with the way it works but, again, I'd like to see that fixed by every club having an academy so the whole game is better instead of the usual AFL approach of stripping away from clubs doing it "well".
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    I know they don't care about equality but I do
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  7. #22
    FFC Agent of Chaos Big Sledge #32's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wogitalia View Post
    I don't really like the idea of decoupling the clubs and academies as much as I'd like to see every club have one and probably an adjustment to the bidding process. I think the coupling is a big part of the system and it should be used to grow the game in otherwise underdeveloped regions.

    Ultimately I'd love a system where the bidding process remains as is and every club has their own academy where they can nominate one player per year to go straight to their list via the same bidding system as in place (ie. Father son system).

    No doubt it's not fair right now with the way it works but, again, I'd like to see that fixed by every club having an academy so the whole game is better instead of the usual AFL approach of stripping away from clubs doing it "well".
    The bidding process should be the lowest pick gets the player.

    Say if Sydney want to use pick 19 on him, but Adelaide us pick 11 they trump Sydney regardless of other circumstances.

    FS bidding is fine imo given the rarity that they are a factor for most clubs.
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    The bidding process should be the lowest pick gets the player.

    Say if Sydney want to use pick 19 on him, but Adelaide us pick 11 they trump Sydney regardless of other circumstances.

    FS bidding is fine imo given the rarity that they are a factor for most clubs.
    I agree, that system should be in place for the academies, but not F/S. The F/S system works perfectly, because there should be an incentive to have players play for their fathers' clubs.
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    The bidding process should be the lowest pick gets the player.

    Say if Sydney want to use pick 19 on him, but Adelaide us pick 11 they trump Sydney regardless of other circumstances.

    FS bidding is fine imo given the rarity that they are a factor for most clubs.
    That's unfair on the team that has spent the time and money developing the player though, which is the entire point of the system. There needs to be an incentive for the clubs to spend their finite resources on a money losing venture like this that has no other reason to exist outside of talent development.

    The fair system would be for every club to have an academy that gives them equal access to their chosen region, assuming that academies are to exist in the first place.

    That system would also be unfair on a team with high picks who happen to have a middling talent available. Say this year St Kilda had a player who was 15-20 in the draft and Sydney bid pick 17 for him, St Kilda would then have to use pick 1 to take that player or lose out completely.

    I actually like the idea of an incentive existing for the clubs to run the academies, the problem I have is that only 4 clubs have academies instead of 18, that is what we should be addressing. The bidding system would be an ebb and flow system that would be fair if we fixed that underlying imbalance in the system, academies would be more equitable than the father son rule if they fixed the problem. The "easy" solution is to just hit delete on academies but I don't think that's better for the game in the long term.
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wogitalia View Post
    That's unfair on the team that has spent the time and money developing the player though, which is the entire point of the system. There needs to be an incentive for the clubs to spend their finite resources on a money losing venture like this that has no other reason to exist outside of talent development.

    The fair system would be for every club to have an academy that gives them equal access to their chosen region, assuming that academies are to exist in the first place.

    That system would also be unfair on a team with high picks who happen to have a middling talent available. Say this year St Kilda had a player who was 15-20 in the draft and Sydney bid pick 17 for him, St Kilda would then have to use pick 1 to take that player or lose out completely.

    I actually like the idea of an incentive existing for the clubs to run the academies, the problem I have is that only 4 clubs have academies instead of 18, that is what we should be addressing. The bidding system would be an ebb and flow system that would be fair if we fixed that underlying imbalance in the system, academies would be more equitable than the father son rule if they fixed the problem. The "easy" solution is to just hit delete on academies but I don't think that's better for the game in the long term.
    That is why I said that the AFL should take the burden of raising them.

    If you are going to give four clubs priority access to two states best talent with no way for the 14 other clubs to trump then it really needs to change wholesale.

    I would have been pissed if the system was in place and Adelaide miss out on Tex. The NSW Scholarship program wasn't broke so I don't know why they got rid of it
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    The NSW Scholarship program wasn't broke so I don't know why they got rid of it
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    The scholarships were a little suss. But then they were end of the draft rookie selections regardless of talent.

    They certainly did encourage drafting of NSW players though as their rookies were outside the traditional list (much like the alternative sports players like Blicavs or the Irish/Americans are now) and as such weren't competing with other draftees for a traditional spot.

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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    That is why I said that the AFL should take the burden of raising them.

    If you are going to give four clubs priority access to two states best talent with no way for the 14 other clubs to trump then it really needs to change wholesale.

    I would have been pissed if the system was in place and Adelaide miss out on Tex. The NSW Scholarship program wasn't broke so I don't know why they got rid of it
    The AFL and AIS were not willing to pay for it because it provided no benefit to the AFL brand.

    That's why the academy exists, it's the Swans footing the entire bill (and the other clubs obviously) so that there is a pipeline for NSW talent that would otherwise find it's way to the NRL or Union. Heeney is a perfect example of this, he would have gone to NRL instead of AFL if it wasn't for the academy guiding him down the AFL path.

    The reason the AFL wont fit the bill is because it does not benefit them, having 10 odd kids a year from NSW stick with the game is not worth the financial burden for them.

    That's why, imo, the ideal scenario is for the 18 clubs to all have their own academy, I think the ideal result would be for it to focus on some undeveloped region as the current 4 academies do but I'm fine with some other equitable system.

    Not disagreeing that it is unfair right now in any way, I don't know if there is a restriction on the other clubs being able to do the same (I assume there is based on Eddie's comments but I don't know) but there shouldn't be.

    Basically the current system of there being an incentive is the reason it exists but without those incentives it doesn't exist, clubs, like the AFL, wont do uneconomical things without a benefit.
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Article form AFL site re state league "hidden gems"

    http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-1...-state-leagues
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    Re: 2014 AFL Draft/Trade Thread

    Frankston defender Nic Newman has been named the Fothergill-Round Medalist in the VFL for season 2014.

    The promising former Dandenong Southern Stingrays player in the TAC Cup has had a standout second season in the VFL playing all 17 games for the Dolphins and averaging 23 disposals and seven marks a game.

    The Fothergill Round Medal is presented to the most promising young talent in the VFL aged 23 or younger who has the potential to take his game to the AFL.
    It is in recognition of Des Fothergill and Barry Round, the only players who have won a Brownlow Medal and Liston Trophy. Fothergill, a Collingwood player, won the 1940 Brownlow and ’41 Liston when he was playing for Williamstown. Round, a South Melbourne player, won the 1981 Brownlow and the ’87 Liston when he was a Williamstown player.
    Overlooked at TAC Cup level as a 17 and 18-year-old before playing as a 19-year-old for Dandenong Stingrays, Newman managed just three games last year for Frankston, and they were as the 23rd player.

    During the off season, Newman went head first into giving himself every chance to capitalise on his ability. It has been a stunning turnaround with Newman playing every game for the Dolphins.

    “Nick probably worked harder than anyone over preseason,” Frankston coach Goosey said.

    “He was disappointed he didn’t get senior games, but he understood why and what he had to do and he took everything on board.

    “He (Newman) just had to learn a lot, he always had the talent.

    “When kids come out of the TAC Cup they have to get their heads around understanding the game. There’s more set ups, structures and more to do with a game plan.

    “Even for kids who get drafted you see how big a jump it is. A lot of kids become really impatient.

    “It’s really like an apprenticeship. You don’t become a tradesman after one year. The more we can do to educate the kids to the system it will ensure we don’t lose them.”

    Newman said he worked really hard during pre-season so he could present himself as a viable senior selection from the opening round.

    He added he set mini-goals from the time pre-season began.

    “All I wanted to do was have a good preseason, impress the coaches, get a game in the first practice match in the seniors and from there it was to do enough so I stayed in every week,” Newman said.

    “Then I tried to make sure I was in the seniors in Round 1. After Round 1, I set myself another goal of still being in the team for the ANZAC Day game.

    “The more games you play the more comfortable you feel and the better player you are going to be.

    “After Round 6 or 7, I started to feel comfortable being in the team and you don’t tend to stress too much about your form and it’s all about the team.

    “The biggest thing was playing consistent footy over a period of time and getting that consistency into your game.”

    Goosey noted how players like Sam Mitchell, Sam Dwyer and Tory Dickson had evolved into quality AFL players after learning the game at the VFL, even in the Development League.

    The Frankston coach said players who do endure the hard yards appreciate the success more when it comes.

    He believes there is untold upside to the 21-year-old Newman, a 187 cm, 81kg defender.

    “Nick is a natural footballer. Last year he would zone off his man and we’ve worked with him about being on his opponent’s case,” Goosey said.

    “He reads the play well, he’s a good mark and he sets up a lot of the play for us. He’s got football smarts.”

    That talent is starting to shine through, as he joins former Dolphin and now Essendon player Michael Hibberd as the only other Fothergill-Round Medal winner from Frankston, and other winners such as Dean Towers, Michael Barlow, Robin Nahas and Aaron Davey.
    http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc_...ID=31089947#PJ

    Newman probably the fantasy stud of the mature age prospects, so worth knowing about him.

    Prior to the last round he was averaging 105.3 DT for the season and a pretty stellar 114 DT in his last 11 games.

    Wing/half-back. Contrary to most state league prospects is still a good age (21), uses the ball well (lefty) and is a good size at 187cm. Mature age medium defenders generally are very reliable too. Ticks every box to be a successful fantasy player next year.

    Knock to date has been his consistency and his defensive ability. Consistency has certainly been rectified this season, named in the best players for 8 of Frankston's 16 games and only dropping below 18 disposals once for the entire season. Think his defensive ability is still somewhat of a work in progress, but his attacking game is first rate.

    Wonder if he will find himself at Essendon next season, following other Frankston half-backs Hibberd, Baguley and van Unen.
    Last edited by pvcyclone; 18th August 2014 at 06:41 PM.

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