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Thread: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

  1. #31
    FFC Agent of Chaos Big Sledge #32's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    I'm not trying to discredit the rise of Port or anyone because of their picks.

    They would still be up shit creek if Primus was coaching.

    But the amount of top end picks they had really should lead to them being a pretty decent side.

    Just as it did with Collingwood & Hawthorn in the mid 00s.

    It clearly isn't the only reason otherwise Melbourne would be sitting along side them and Adelaide and Sydney would be last on the ladder.
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    FFC Football Operations Manager ZergMinion's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    If anything, Port are an excellent example of how you can improve if you ramp up spending in the football department.

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    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Sledge - Port's picks haven't been atypical by any stretch. The argument that they "should" be good because of their picks is a furphy.

    Zerg - not disputing that. My argument is that they should be given an equal chance to earn as much as anyone else, then spend what they earn.
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    Administrator bailz66's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    2 years ago we would have argued the same thing about Port being so far behind everyone else that we couldnt see them coming back

    Even Melbourne this year have started to look better. Why??? Because they have spent the money off the field

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    FFC Football Operations Manager ZergMinion's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    Sledge - Port's picks haven't been atypical by any stretch. The argument that they "should" be good because of their picks is a furphy.

    Zerg - not disputing that. My argument is that they should be given an equal chance to earn as much as anyone else, then spend what they earn.
    And my argument is there is nothing "equal" about the chance to earn as much as anyone else. It's a total fallacy and the main reason we're here right now. Some club managements will no doubt still suck under the new arrangements, but they'll have no more excuses to hide behind and their members will turf them out.

    To put it another way, even if every club was perfectly managed there would be gross inequality between the rich and poor clubs, and there would definitely still be rich and poor clubs.

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    FFC Football Operations Manager Hodges's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Dogs are an interesting one. Callan Ward was a huge loss for them. Sure they haven't hit on a lot of their earlier picks but put him back in that side and it's a pretty killer midfield.
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    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by ZergMinion View Post
    And my argument is there is nothing "equal" about the chance to earn as much as anyone else. It's a total fallacy and the main reason we're here right now. Some club managements will no doubt still suck under the new arrangements, but they'll have no more excuses to hide behind and their members will turf them out.

    To put it another way, even if every club was perfectly managed there would be gross inequality between the rich and poor clubs, and there would definitely still be rich and poor clubs.
    How does that work? If every club is given equal opportunity, the better run clubs will rise and the poorer clubs will fall.

    EDIT: I'd argue that Port is a perfect example. They got their shit together off field, and look what's happened. Give Footscray, North, St Kilda the stadium deal to do that, and see what happens.
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  9. #38
    FFC Agent of Chaos Big Sledge #32's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    How does that work? If every club is given equal opportunity, the better run clubs will rise and the poorer clubs will fall.

    EDIT: I'd argue that Port is a perfect example. They got their shit together off field, and look what's happened. Give Footscray, North, St Kilda the stadium deal to do that, and see what happens.
    The SA Stadium deals are still pretty shit house. Both clubs are packing a stadium, posting record members but it isn't enough. Port are going to be $4 million better off than last year, yet are still going to post a loss this year apparently.

    So they might be better run, but the increase in spending means they are still living above their means.

    Equalisation will help them stay competitive.
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  10. #39
    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    The SA Stadium deals are still pretty shit house. Both clubs are packing a stadium, posting record members but it isn't enough. Port are going to be $4 million better off than last year, yet are still going to post a loss this year apparently.

    So they might be better run, but the increase in spending means they are still living above their means.

    Equalisation will help them stay competitive.
    The stadium deal is shithouse and needs to be sorted out, as a far higher priority than capping Collingwood's spending which will do no benefit to anyone.

    On the other hand though, they have an inherent short term competitive advantage by being 50% of SA's AFL teams. Footscray need the stadium deal as a higher priority, but establishing themselves in Darwin 3 times a year, or even just claiming the western growth regions of Melbourne, they'd have a pretty similar footing to Port Adelaide.
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    FFC Football Operations Manager ZergMinion's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    How does that work? If every club is given equal opportunity, the better run clubs will rise and the poorer clubs will fall.

    EDIT: I'd argue that Port is a perfect example. They got their shit together off field, and look what's happened. Give Footscray, North, St Kilda the stadium deal to do that, and see what happens.
    No club has or ever will have equal opportunity. It's like saying all poor people choose to be poor.

  12. #41
    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    It's not like that at all, because all clubs are intrinsically similar, and the biggest difference (blockbusters/draw) is smoothed over by the SDF.
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  13. #42
    FFC General Manager Crow-mo's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Wogitalia View Post
    In some areas, sure, but in something like football I'd say no. It is Collingwood who went down the path of high altitude training (among other things) that really pushed the training element. They were the club that invested in a specialised training centre designed entirely for an AFL football club that every club is copying. The GPS technology that they all use now was pushed by Geelong after they started to spend extra on their off field areas, Hawthorn are pushing it further this year. Sydney and Geelong were the clubs that went with the Leading Teams to change their leadership. There would be countless other examples.
    see I don't think that really holds. take altitude training and leading teams, these haven't become embedded and the wind is probably blowing in the other direction now.

    I think football is faddish, and people copy the rich clubs but I don't think this is innovation. spend, hit and hope isn't innovation. that's just lower risk for wacky ideas.


    It's obviously not always the case but in AFL it has been the big clubs leading the way with changes and the smaller clubs jumping on board once they see it work.
    I think that shows a lack of innovation.


    A cap on investment in the game is just awful, imo. You are punishing the well run teams and restricting them from being able to get rewards for their effort in being well run whilst removing the incentive the poor clubs have to try and improve their off field leadership, essentially you are saying there is no point in being above average because we will punish you.
    you look at MLB, they have no caps on anything - except economic affordability. a huge barrier, and the richest teams aren't the most successful.
    the small clubs innovate because they don't have the money, which is effectively the hardest cap of all.


    Look at a club like Port, in two years they've gone from being a joke to back to being a very good club, simply by getting good leadership and investing in their club off field. It's not hard to fix AFL clubs, Port were a mess, Hawthorn were a mess, Geelong were a mess, Sydney were a mess, Fremantle were an absolute rabble, heck even Collingwood were a mess. I'd rather see the top clubs setting an off field standard and the other clubs striving to match it. I'd love to know if there is even a correlation between off field expenditure and success though as well.
    I don't think money had much, if anything, to do with Port or Freo or Geelong. they were about leadership and culture, not cash.
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  14. #43
    FFC Football Operations Manager ZergMinion's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    It's not like that at all, because all clubs are intrinsically similar, and the biggest difference (blockbusters/draw) is smoothed over by the SDF.
    So what was all that talk about some clubs not having as many "dyed in the wool" fans or whatever that expression was? The idea that 10 clubs in one state can compete on a level playing field to two clubs in another is also a bit silly. Queensland clubs can't compete on a level playing field with WA clubs because one state is footy mad and the other state doesn't care.

  15. #44
    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    You don't need to capitalise on all your fans though. Essendon have something like 2 million fans according to those surveys. How many do you reckon contribute even a dollar to the club, directly or indirectly?
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  16. #45
    FFC Football Operations Manager ZergMinion's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    You don't need to capitalise on all your fans though. Essendon have something like 2 million fans according to those surveys. How many do you reckon contribute even a dollar to the club, directly or indirectly?
    Do you really think the percentage of fans willing or able to pay the club money changes much when you have more or less fans? All you're doing is showing that Essendon aren't playing on a level field, as there aren't enough people in Australia for every club to have 2 million fans.

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