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Thread: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

  1. #16
    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

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    FFC Agent of Chaos Big Sledge #32's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    That's great, not every team hits on their first round picks.

    They are hardly a team that is living at the bottom forever because they fail to develop talent. They are just in the down part of their cycle.
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    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    That was exactly the point though. Port have Ebert (albeit a trade), Lobbe, Hartlett and Moore/Butcher/Pittard from the first round of the same drafts. The reason Port have the "plethora of first rounders" that Footscray don't is that, on the whole, they didn't stuff theirs up either at the draft stage or the development stage.
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    FFC Football Operations Manager ZergMinion's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    You have to get those picks right though Sledgey, and you have to develop them properly. Footscray and Melbourne are classic examples of basket cases who seem content to remain basket cases and cry poor who have wasted early picks through a combination of poor recruiting and poor development.
    So if they could afford a decent recruitment and player development team you reckon they'd get better?

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    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    And how does stopping Collingwood from recruiting and developing their players to the level they currently do help Footscray recruit and develop theirs?
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    FFC Football Operations Manager ZergMinion's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    And how does stopping Collingwood from recruiting and developing their players to the level they currently do help Footscray recruit and develop theirs?
    It's an entire suite of changes that are interlocked. You're nit-picking one change out of context.

    Also Collingwood are not being stopped, they're being discouraged with a price signal.

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    FFC Agent of Chaos Big Sledge #32's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    That was exactly the point though. Port have Ebert (albeit a trade), Lobbe, Hartlett and Moore/Butcher/Pittard from the first round of the same drafts. The reason Port have the "plethora of first rounders" that Footscray don't is that, on the whole, they didn't stuff theirs up either at the draft stage or the development stage.
    Port also have mistakes like Moore, Butcher & they also took Ben Jacobs in 2010. Was it Port's drafting or their development that stuffed them up?

    Not every club hits on all of their first rounders. So when they don't it goes part of the way to explaining the situation. Port were also down from 2008-2012 leaving them with a lot of chances to get it right. Along with Boak who they secured at pick 5 two seasons earlier.

    Bulldogs will become better in time, but they desperately needed to hit on the KPP talent as they screwed it up in 07 & 08.
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    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by ZergMinion View Post
    It's an entire suite of changes that are interlocked. You're nit-picking one change out of context.

    Also Collingwood are not being stopped, they're being discouraged with a price signal.
    It's not out of context at all. How does limiting Collingwood's ability to spend their own hard-earned cash how they see fit positively impact on Joe Rookie who just got drafted by Footscray? It's a lazy way to bring the top teams down rather than the bottom teams up.

    And it's all ignoring the elephant in the room which is the disgusting deal with Etihad which the AFL seems all to kee to profit from while clubs like Collingwood, Hawthorn and West Coast foot the bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    Port also have mistakes like Moore, Butcher & they also took Ben Jacobs in 2010. Was it Port's drafting or their development that stuffed them up?

    Not every club hits on all of their first rounders. So when they don't it goes part of the way to explaining the situation. Port were also down from 2008-2012 leaving them with a lot of chances to get it right. Along with Boak who they secured at pick 5 two seasons earlier.

    Bulldogs will become better in time, but they desperately needed to hit on the KPP talent as they screwed it up in 07 & 08.
    Every club hits and misses (except for Sydney who only seem to miss in the first round before drafting three guys who every hindsight draft has in the first round ). Why is Port Adelaide's resurgence dismissed as "pfft, they had a plethora of first rounders" whereas Footscray get an excuse because they've missed more than hit?
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    FFC Agent of Chaos Big Sledge #32's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    Every club hits and misses (except for Sydney who only seem to miss in the first round before drafting three guys who every hindsight draft has in the first round ). Why is Port Adelaide's resurgence dismissed as "pfft, they had a plethora of first rounders" whereas Footscray get an excuse because they've missed more than hit?
    It's because they are at different stages by the time that 2009 draft was held, the Bulldogs had finished 3rd that year and Port Adelaide finished 10th.

    They are simply at a different stage of development than Port. Once Port got its shit together off field and had a coach and resources that could foster the talent that they had they began to blossom.

    Despite missing players, they still have a plethora of first round talent on their list. When people were comparing them to Melbourne 3 years ago I would say it's stupid because Port has a far better list than them. The Bulldogs aren't being excused, it is simply me recognising where they are at and not simply bashing a club that is pretty much where everyone expects them to be after their 2009-2011 run.
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    It's not out of context at all. How does limiting Collingwood's ability to spend their own hard-earned cash how they see fit positively impact on Joe Rookie who just got drafted by Footscray? It's a lazy way to bring the top teams down rather than the bottom teams up.
    I was under the impression that the reason they're taking money from the rich clubs is so they can give it to the poor clubs so they can afford to pay as much off the field. The soft limit collects more money for redistribution if clubs go over the cap, which also helps Joe Rookie get developed. You can't have proper equalisation without a cap because rich clubs will always have more money to spend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    And it's all ignoring the elephant in the room which is the disgusting deal with Etihad which the AFL seems all to kee to profit from while clubs like Collingwood, Hawthorn and West Coast foot the bill.
    Why is the room always so full of elephants? It's like every damn room contains a damn elephant these days.

    Don't the AFL chip in their own money to help poor clubs?

  11. #26
    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    It's because they are at different stages by the time that 2009 draft was held, the Bulldogs had finished 3rd that year and Port Adelaide finished 10th.

    They are simply at a different stage of development than Port. Once Port got its shit together off field and had a coach and resources that could foster the talent that they had they began to blossom.

    Despite missing players, they still have a plethora of first round talent on their list. When people were comparing them to Melbourne 3 years ago I would say it's stupid because Port has a far better list than them. The Bulldogs aren't being excused, it is simply me recognising where they are at and not simply bashing a club that is pretty much where everyone expects them to be after their 2009-2011 run.
    And in 2008, Port were 13th and Footscray 3rd. Taking out the Burgoyne trade, their picks over that era were remarkably similar, especially given the F/S market (hilariously) deemed Cordy to be a pick 13.

    In fact, before Clay Smith in 2011 (who is up in the air atm due to injury), Footscray have failed with every first round draft pick since 2005 and Higgins. Early pick, late pick, it doesn't matter, they've squandered it.

    Why should Collingwood be held back because Footscray's recruiting and/or development department is shithouse?
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    FFC Agent of Chaos Big Sledge #32's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    They aren't being held back.

    If Collingwood wants to spend more cash then they can, they just have to spend extra for the privilege.
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    Administrator bailz66's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben the Gooner View Post
    And in 2008, Port were 13th and Footscray 3rd. Taking out the Burgoyne trade, their picks over that era were remarkably similar, especially given the F/S market (hilariously) deemed Cordy to be a pick 13.

    In fact, before Clay Smith in 2011 (who is up in the air atm due to injury), Footscray have failed with every first round draft pick since 2005 and Higgins. Early pick, late pick, it doesn't matter, they've squandered it.

    Why should Collingwood be held back because Footscray's recruiting and/or development department is shithouse?
    The thing with that argument Ben is, If Footscray stuff up their next picks going forward they are still going to struggle. Football clubs are very shrewed so your Collingwoods and Essendons will find ways to spend the money without it being football expenditure.

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    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by ZergMinion View Post
    I was under the impression that the reason they're taking money from the rich clubs is so they can give it to the poor clubs so they can afford to pay as much off the field. The soft limit collects more money for redistribution if clubs go over the cap, which also helps Joe Rookie get developed. You can't have proper equalisation without a cap because rich clubs will always have more money to spend.

    Why is the room always so full of elephants? It's like every damn room contains a damn elephant these days.

    Don't the AFL chip in their own money to help poor clubs?
    Equalisation like that actively discourages clubs from doing their best to stand on their own two feet. North are a team that has worked their absolute backsides off to get to some sort of financial credibility. They're trying to establish themselves as the team for Hobart and they've finally reached a point where they can afford to pay for some serious names in their football department (think Walsh, Tudor and Brown). Under this plan, Footscray who have done none of the above will be dragged up to North's level with none of the effort. It encourages laziness and lack of innovation away from the football department.

    True equalisation is to give every club a level playing field. It's not entirely possible with a 22 game season, but the Special Distribution Fund does a pretty good job of smoothing the uneven draw out. Use some of the AFL's obscene profiteering from the ticketing fiasco, the food at the footy fiasco, their grossly hypocritical and unjust fine collecting etc. and buy Etihad out early. Let every Melbourne club have an equal crack at making money from home games, get rid of blockbusters like Essendon v Hawthorn at Etihad, let Footscray profit from a 20k home game against GWS, and lo and behold, every club is doing just fine.

    If Footscray get 25k to a home game at Etihad against GWS, they lose money and Essendon makes money (a slice of every piece of Footscray merchandise, a slice of every bucket of soggy chips, a slice of every cup of warm midstrength beer etc.) under the current deal. That's ridiculous. Get rid of that farcical hurdle to the profitability of small Etihad tenants, and let clubs rise and fall on their own merits, not an artificially equalised system where innovation and revenue raising are discouraged.

    The AFL chips in money, then takes more away through the ridiculous stadium deals. The money they chip in is like throwing a drowning man a bottle of water. He's thirsty, but it's not helping.

    Clubs like Collingwood, Essendon, West Coast etc. will always be profitable, and will always be the cash cows through which this is funded, but clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong who have been run ridiculously well off field, clubs like North who are striving to be that little bit better etc. - these clubs are actively discouraged from doing so. Why earn your own money, when you can just receive handouts?
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    Fort Kickass Ben the Gooner's Avatar
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    Re: Changes to AFL Salary Cap and COLA

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sledge #32 View Post
    They aren't being held back.

    If Collingwood wants to spend more cash then they can, they just have to spend extra for the privilege.
    Which is holding them back from spending their own cash however they see fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by bailz66 View Post
    The thing with that argument Ben is, If Footscray stuff up their next picks going forward they are still going to struggle. Football clubs are very shrewed so your Collingwoods and Essendons will find ways to spend the money without it being football expenditure.
    Which is their fault! Port didn't have a ridiculous amount of high draft picks, they developed roughly the same set of picks as Footscray into a better pool of talent, despite being a bigger basket case off-field. Discrediting the rise of Port as being due to early draft picks is farcical.
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